Nest Learning Thermostat - 2nd Generation T200577

Nest Learning Thermostat - 2nd Generation T200577 From Nest Price: $249.00 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details Availability: Usually ships in 24 hours Ships from and sold by Amazon.com 32 new or used available from $199.99 Average customer review:  (1894 customer reviews)

Product Description

The Nest Learning Thermostat learns what temperatures you like, turns itself down when you're away and can be controlled from your smartphone, tablet or laptop.

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Product Details

• Amazon Sales Rank: #25 in Home Improvement
• Color: Stainless
• Brand: Nest
• Model: T200577
• Released on: 2012-10-14
• Number of items: 1

Features

• Auto-Schedule - Remembers the temperatures you like and programs itself
• Auto-Away - Saves energy by automatically turning itself down when you're away
• Remote control - Connect the Nest thermostat to Wi-Fi to control it from your smartphone, laptop or tablet
• Easy install - Most people install the Nest thermostat in 30 minutes or less

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Editorial Reviews

From the Manufacturer

See larger image.

A Thermostat for the Smartphone Generation

The Nest Learning Thermostat learns what temperatures you like, turns itself
down when you're away and can be controlled from anywhere over Wi-Fi.
Check Compatibility
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Let's Stop Wasting Energy

Your thermostat controls about half of your energy bill - that's as much as the refrigerator, lighting, TVs, stereos and computers combined. Problem is, a lot of that energy is wasted heating and cooling an empty home.
Programmable thermostats were supposed to help, but they can be hard to program. Many people never program them. So we made it simple -the Nest thermostat programs itself.

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Control From Your Wi-Fi Connected Nest Account

Simply connect the Nest Learning Thermostat to your home Wi-Fi to control it from a smartphone, tablet or laptop. Change the temperature, view and adjust your schedule or settings, and see exactly how much energy you're using.
Detailed Energy History is available on the Mobile and Web app for the last 10 days. Your Nest Thermostat also sends you an energy summary every month with tips to help you save more.
The Nest Learning Thermostat is secure, private, and reliable. Nest supports HTTPS, SSL and 128-bit encryption.

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Programs Itself, Saves Energy

The Nest thermostat learns from you - your temperature adjustments, your
house, your patterns. Teach it well to stay comfortable at home and save
energy when you're away.

Auto-Schedule

Turn it up, turn it down. The Nest thermostat remembers what temperatures keep you comfortable and creates a custom schedule for your home. As your life and the seasons change, Nest automatically adapts.

Auto-Away

The Nest thermostat uses its activity sensors to sense when nobody's home and turn itself to an energy-saving temperature. Auto-Away works in 90% of homes, even if Nest is in a room you don't use much.

Airwave

Airwave cuts your AC costs while keeping you cool. It turns on automatically
when your home’s humidity allows.

System Match

System Match automatically turns on specific energy-saving or comfort
features for you, depending on what heating or cooling system you have.

Personalized for Any System.

Nest knows one size doesn't fit all. So you tell the Nest thermostat what system you have and System Match will turn on specific features to automatically help you save.

The Nest Leaf

The Nest Leaf appears when you turn the Nest thermostat to a temperature that will save energy. It guides you in the right direction.

Energy History

See exactly when your system was on with Energy History, then get a summary of your entire month's energy use with the Nest Energy Report. The more you know, the more you can save.

Early-On

Get the temperature you want when you want it. If your schedule says 72°F at 6 a.m., Early-On will start heating or cooling early so it'll be 72°F when your alarm rings.

Filter Reminders

Nest reminds you to change your air filter based on how many hours your heat or AC has run. A clean filter can cut 5% off your heating or cooling bill.

Heat Pump Balance

Heat Pump Balance works for homes with heat pumps. It minimizes how often you need to use expensive auxiliary heat - just choose whether you want more comfort or more savings, and Heat Pump Balance will automatically adjust when AUX comes on.

True Radiant

True Radiant for radiators and underfloor radiant system gives you a predictable schedule and even heat. No more frustrating guessing about what temperature to set when.

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Easy to Install

We designed Nest to be a quick, easy install: three out of four people install Nest themselves in 30 minutes or less. If you're comfortable installing a light fixture, you can install Nest. Everything you need comes in the box. Too busy? Learn more about Nest Certified professional installation at 855-4MY-NEST.

At Home in Most Homes

The Nest thermostat is compatible with 95% of low voltage heating & cooling systems, according to Nest’s online compatibility checker. That includes gas, oil, electric, forced air, heat pump, and radiant.

• Heating: 1, 2 and 3 stages (W1, W2, W3 wires)
• Cooling: 1 and 2 stages (Y1, Y2)
• Heat pump: with auxiliary and emergency heat (O/B, AUX, E)
• Fan (G)
• Power (C, Rh, Rc)
• Humidifier or dehumidifier (HUM, DEHUM)*
• Dual fuel (heat pump and furnace)*
• Zone systems with or without dampers
• The Nest thermostat is designed to work without a common “C”wire. However, adding a common C wire may be required in rare installations
• Wi-Fi required for remote control and software updates and Energy Reports

* Professional installation recommended.

Check Compatibility Online

Use Nest's compatibility checker to make sure Nest will work in your home and get a custom wiring guide.
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Detailed Specs

Here's the technical info for the Nest Learning Thermostat.

1. Solid stainless steel ring
2. Bright LCD screen: 320 x 320 px display, 1.75" diameter
3. Built-in rechargeable lithium ion battery
4. Sensor window

Assembled Unit (Display + Base)

• Mass=252g / 8.9oz
• Diam=83.0mm / 3.27 inches
• Height=32.0mm / 1.26 inches

Environmental

• RoHS Compliant
• Mercury Free
• 100% Recyclable Packaging

Wireless

• 802.11b/g/n @ 2.4GHz
• 802.15.4 @ 2.4GHz

Inside the Box

• Nest Learning Thermostat
• Installation guide
• Welcome guide
• Nest screwdriver
• Wall screws
• Optional trim kit

Languages

• English
• Spanish

Battery

• Built in rechargeable lithium-ion battery

Sensors

• Temperature
• Humidity
• Far-field activity
• Near-field activity
• Ambient light

LCD Display

• 24 bit color
• Ø320 display
• 1.75" diameter

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Customer Reviews

Most helpful customer reviews
616 of 634 people found the following review helpful.
Has a tremendous amount of potential, but can't recommend in current state
By cd2000
I'm an HVAC technician who's installed and troubleshooted this product in customer's homes for the past couple years and experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly. Let's start with the good.

Pros:

-It looks great. Personally I don't really care what my thermostat looks like but I know that is very important to many people and the Nest is unmatched in this area.

-When it works, it is hands down the easiest thermostat to install. The ability to sense wires and automatically configure the thermostat is a cool feature you don't see too often. They have a nifty wizard on their website that where you check the wires you have and it figures out what type of system you have and whether or not it will be compatible. Not that I really care, since this is what I do for a living, but for DIYers who have never done something like this before, it's nice.

-In theory, it can control quite a wide range of HVAC systems, including 4 stages of heating, 2 stages of cooling, dual fuel systems, and humidification/dehumidification.

-The customer service reps do genuinely seem to want to help, and there have been cases of them giving refunds even outside of the return period, or paying for visits by HVAC contractors to troubleshoot issues or repair damage caused by the thermostat.

-The auto away and auto learning seem to work as advertised for the most part and IF, a big IF, you didn't program your previous thermostat, they will save you energy. However your money would be put to much better use by spending 10 minutes reading the manual of your traditional thermostat and programming it (even if its unintuitive, it's not something you have to do often). Then, take that $250 and put it towards something that will REALLY save energy, such as tightening up your house.

-It has energy reporting which the Honeywell wifi thermostats lack (although the Honeywells are better thermostats in every other regard)

Cons:

-Reliability has been less than satisfactory. Instead of using good old reliable relays like most thermostats Nest decided to use what they call FETs (Field Effect Transistors) to control the equipment. They probably did this so they could give the thermostat its small form factor. Unfortunately, they aren't so reliable and tend to fail in the on position. The Y terminal (compressor) seems to fail pretty frequently causing A/C to run in the winter, sometimes at the same time as the heat. Some people do not have this issue, but for those that do, it seems to happen again and again no matter how many new baseplates Nest sends out. IMO it doesn't matter how many people don't have issues, the technology is plain unreliable and they need to stop using it. Besides the FET issue, software updates are pushed to the thermostat and the user has no choice on whether or not to accept them. Sometimes, they have bugs. The most recent one, 4.0, which the only purpose of was to add support for the Nest Protect, caused issues with some thermostats unable to power themselves. Some Nest owners found their thermostats unable to connect to wifi. Others found their pipes frozen as the Nest failed to turn on their equipment. Again, not everyone had an issue. But a thermostat is not an iPod. A buggy update is going to cause a much bigger problem than being without your music if you are part of the group that does have problems. They need to stop forcing updates on people (have a way to apply them at will) and test them extensively on their own systems before release.

-It's a power stealing thermostat. One big issue when you upgrade to any wifi thermostat is how to power it. To understand this issue, I will give a brief history of thermostats. Back in the old days, we had simple mercury thermostats. No need to power them at all! But then along came digital programmable thermostats. They needed power for their displays, memory, and possibly a backlight. The most common HVAC system in US consists of a basic single stage gas furnace, matched with a single speed central air conditioner. To control this setup, you need four wires in your wall going to your thermostat. This worked fine for old mercury thermostats. To actually enable the thermostat to power itself, though, you need a 5th "common" wire. But, most people only had 4 wires going to their thermostat location. Programmable thermostat manufacturers came up with two solutions to this. The most common solution was to make the thermostats battery powered. These were simple enough to install and worked fine, the only con was that you had to replace the batteries periodically. Another solution was called a "power stealing" thermostat. This thermostat robbed enough current from the HVAC control wires to power itself, but NOT enough to trigger the HVAC system. On older HVAC systems that just ran off relays, this worked fine. Fast-forward to the age of wifi thermostats. How to power these things? AA Batteries wouldn't work, because the wifi drew too much power. What MOST wifi thermostat manufacturers decided to do was FORCE customers to run a common wire to power the thermostat. Nest was not satisfied with this as they wanted to make their thermostat easy to DIY install, so they decided to implement power stealing. Nowadays, though, most HVAC systems run off control boards, which are often sensitive to attempts by a thermostat to rob power for itself and may not let it at all. So sadly, the Nest actually works better with old standing pilot furnaces than newer efficient ones, even though it is a thermostat that promotes efficiency. Huh? Luckily, Nest gives you the option to connect a common wire if you have one, so you don't need to rely on the power stealing. Unfortunately, this issue has just led to too many problems and too much confusion by consumers who thought that Nest would work with their system and then found they needed a common wire. For more on this, see a great blog post on their competitor Ecobee's site (a product which, by the way, I highly recommend): [...]. As you can see, not everyone will experience issues, but enough will that it is not OK to assume it will just work, and also it is possible for problems to occur even if it has been working for a long time due to changes in weather and battery capacity.

-"Heat Pump Balance" DOES NOT work as advertised and not only will it not save energy, it will use MORE by running backup aux heat way too much. You can turn that off and set your own lockout temperature for aux heat, but the minimum is only 35 degrees. Most modern heat pump systems can hold their own own down into the 20s. THIS IS A REALLY BAD BUG, BAD ENOUGH THAT AFFECTS ALL HEAT PUMP USERS. BE WARNED!

-It doesn't run multistage systems properly. If the Nest detects 1st stage is not keeping up, it will kick into 2nd stage. Fine, most thermostats do this. But then, instead of dropping back into 1st stage, it will stay in 2nd until it shuts off, decreasing comfort and efficiency. Finally, when recovering from a setback, it will ONLY use 1st stage, which takes way too long and makes it difficult to recover in time.

-Technical support isn't so great. Lately there have been ridiculously long hold times, and they don't seem to know what they're talking about. They are polite and professional, though, and I don't blame this problem on the agents, I blame it on the fact they aren't trained properly, which has to do with the next con...

-The overall attitude of the company. They do not communicate with their customers adequately to alert them of updates or problems. There is a community forum on their website that is quite helpful, and I highly recommend you visit it before purchasing. There used to be Nest moderators there, but they have all but abandoned it. There are many Nest users there though who put a lot of time into helping people solve problems and giving advice on how to best use Nest products. There are many complaints there, but they aren't "bashing" the products. Instead they give constructive criticism to Nest on where to improve, and ask for basic updates on what Nest is doing and whether they will fix these numerous issues. Unfortunately, instead of responding to the community members, they decided to make it un-indexable by search engines so prospective customers would NOT see this information. You can see for yourself. Go to [...] and view the source code of the page. You'll see . You can click "recent discussions" to see what people have been posting and feel free to create an account and ask any questions you may have.

-No adjustable temp swing or cycles per hour (other than selecting between radiant and forced air heat)

-Can't adjust % RH setpoint for humidifier automatically based on outdoor temperature

-Their implementation of emergency heat for heat pumps doesn't work well with the majority of systems installed (see the comments thread for more detail).

-The energy reporting is kind of lame. It pales in comparison to Ecobee. Not enough cold, hard, data and too many meaningless statistic like "leaves".

Conclusion: Would I recommend this product? Not currently I wouldn't. If you have a heat pump or multistage system, I absolutely would not recommend it. If you have your heart set on this thermostat and have a basic single stage system, be prepared that it may not work without a common wire, and be prepared for the possible reliability issues. Watch it closely after you install and be ready to return it within the 30 day period if necessary. And really, not even considering the reliability issues, is it worth it? I'm not convinced.

UPDATE 1/13/14: Nest has released a new version of their software, version 4.0.1, which claims to have all the new features of 4.0 but the performance of 3.5.3. The jury's still out on whether it does what they say it will: some people are reporting different issues they didn't have before, others say it fixed their issues. The good news, though, is that there is now a moderator on the Nest community, Brian, who is answering people's questions and helping them get the updates they need. While they still have a long way to go, it is good to see them moving in the right direction. Also, for those who don't know: Google owns Nest now. Make of that what you will, I won't comment on the privacy since everyone has a different opinion on that, but I am optimistic that the Google acquisition will accelerate the development of the product.

UPDATE 1/14/14: Nest's community forum is now indexable by search engines, including Google. Hmm... coincidence? I think not. I am feeling good about this transaction.

UPDATED 1/17/14: Added some pros and cons.
723 of 784 people found the following review helpful.
2nd gen problems solved
By mtnac
As a certified licensed HVAC contractor for 32 years and Certified Nest Reseller in Scottsdale Arizona I have personally re-installed and troubleshot over 50 of the Nest thermostats. We like the Nest and it's concept though we have been experiencing multiple problems with regards to error messages, units operating erratic, systems switching from ac to heat, compressors cycling into internal overload, burnt up control boards and relays to name a few. I do admit it's great for business, though once we show up for service, we now own the call and are responsible for making the system work. The newest problem was this last week on a commercial building with 4 new AC units on the roof and 4 new Nests. We have logged in 6 additional non chargeable hours to troubleshoot and replacements in a 1hr job to change out all 4.
To keep it short, these are the facts;
*Installed 4 nests, all AC units are same brand, 2 Nests are functioning
*Nest #1, installed, ran for 1 day went into heat, troubleshot replaced control cable and determined bad base, replaced with new from supplier. Installed new Nest, ran 3 cycles, began chattering compressor contactor relay (shorted from 26v to 16v) and compressor went off on overload. Replace Nest with conventional thermostat, unit is now operational for last 2 days.
*Nest #2, customer wanted nest in his office, shut off system power, removed Nest head, relocated line in office, reinstalled base and applied power to system, Nest displayed error message on G terminal as no power and system had no fan, removed head metered lines and jumped fan circuit and fan came on. Replaced Nest with conventional thermostat, unit is operational.
*I called the Nest Tech support and was informed that there is a problem with the "FET" (field effect transistor) inside of the base that they are having problems with. Talked with commercial support for 45 minutes, there was nothing they could help with that we have already done.
UPDATE 9-22-2013

9-22-2013
We are a licensed HVAC contractor in Arizona. We have discussed with product support and consulted for an hours with Nest service techs of multiple problems associated with 2nd generation thermostat subases.
Problems found installing new Nest thermostats that will result in complete Nest replacement and possible component replacement include;
*wiring errors in the G terminal after running for a week
*failure to operate fan with relocation of Nest from one office wall to another office wall
*uncontrollable
*compressor relay chatter and compressor overload shutdown
*system going into heat while in cooling mode
*ac units tripping breakers
*costly control boards on ac units shorting out and needing to be replace
*system settings changing from O to B and going into heat mode
*ac units running without the Nest head installed
*wifi not responding to commands with regards to setting changes

11-6-2013 UPDATE
Been working with the Nest folks regarding the issues associated with the sub bases and the 2nd generation Nest. We have found that the upgrade to 3.5.1 has been successful! The installations have gone well with the last 6 Nests that we have installed. We suggest installing your Nest without using the C terminal and configuring the wi-fi as well that will automatically install the upgrade to the Nest. DM Nest Learning Thermostat - 2nd Generation T200577
855 of 949 people found the following review helpful.
Energy-Efficient and Quality Built Thermostat.
By Saint04
I originally purchased the 1st generation of this thermostat. The only thing I didn't like about the 1st gen thermostat was how far it protruded from the wall. On my final day for the return policy of the 1st gen, the 2nd gen was advertised to be released soon. So, I didn't hesitate to uninstall the old thermostat to send it back, pre-order and wait on the 2nd gen. The 2nd gen thermostat's profile in my opinion is perfect for the look and style I desire in my home; It makes my home appear a little more modern, but not too much. The install was easy and it looks great just as with the 1st gen. I noticed a $35 drop in my $120 per month power bill w/the first gen. I have a 2200 sq/ft home w/3bdrm and 2bth that's occupied by only myself and my wife. My AC system is a basic singles stage AC and a two stage heater; I hooked up six wires: O,R,B(C),W2,G & Y. I live in FL and the AC runs at 82 during the day and 78 at night. I'm hoping for about the same performance if not better with this thermostat. I'll admit I did try to go with a programmable Honeywell thermostat which ended up not being compatible with my system while waiting on this order. So my options were keep to my pre-order with the 2nd gen nest or keep the old thermostat from over ten years ago with no features. I'm glad to have decided to go with the 2nd gen Nest.

There are Nest only exclusive cost-saving features on this device. So please no ranting on how this is just another overpriced thermostat for those who are reading reviews and are against this product. Move on to another product where people care instead of being a Debbie downer. My two favorite features of this unit are the auto-away and air-wave technologies (for the A/C) which are probably the two most cost saving features for me. Air-wave shuts down the compressor before the push box. Since the coils are still cold from the compressor running, the thermostat knows how long it takes for your home to get from one temp to another. Depending on this time, the thermostat knows when to shut down the compressor to save power while still getting the home to the desired temp. Auto-away is a feature that shuts off the AC within a programmable range if it detects no one is home. My unit is in a hallway that doesn't see much traffic (I spend most my time in a back office) and this unit still managed to not go into auto-away mode while I'm home. A side note on auto-away though is that it must be trained within the first two weeks before it has an idea of your home activity. Once the unit trains itself, the power saving features will all be automated unless you manually disable them.

As everyone else has claimed, the setup was quick and easy for both the thermostat and wifi to access a personal profile/account. The tools to install the thermostat are generously included with the premium price. Packaging was premium and very Apple-like; a nice presentation.

Yes, like mostly everyone else, I realize $250 is a lot to spend on a thermostat. I don't mind spending that kind of money on something that is going into my home that will be used 24/7. If you don't mind the price hurdle, I'm pretty confident you'll be happy with the performance, company(Nest) and style of this thermostat.

I'm very happy with this thermostat if its anything like the 1st gen in performance. If it doesn't perform, expect a followup to this review. As of now, I'm very pleased assuming the only real differences I'll be expecting from the 1st to 2nd gen is aesthetic appeal.

If you have any questions, I'll do my best to respond. Also, before giving a review a thumbs down, provide a suggestion for making it better. Thanks.

----------update (12-12-12)--------------
I just wanted to mention then 2nd gen is on par with the 1st gen thermostat in cost savings and performance.
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